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An Interview with Michael Linder

Michael LinderThis Fall, the TV present “America’s Most Wanted” began its 23rd season, continuing its run because the longest-running program on the FOX community. Considered one of its creators was Michael Linder, an Emmy Award-winning TV producer and investigative journalist with roots as a radio broadcaster. Back within the mid-1970s, Mike was working at New York radio station WQIV, however was fired (along with a lot of the on-air employees) when the station switched formats from rock to classical music.

By early 1976, Mike landed a job as the news reporter for rival radio station WNEW. Around this time, stories started circulating a few supposedly haunted home in an upscale group on Long Island, the scene of a grisly family murder the previous yr. By means of a pal of his (the TV news director for Channel 5, which was related with WNEW), Mike heard of an upcoming seance to be held on the house. It was to be Mike’s first task for his new station.

“I had done some paranormal research in the past,” Mike explains, recalling a previous paranormal expertise he had in 1969. “I was dwelling in suburban Cleveland. I keep in mind being at a Ouija board seance with a gaggle of associates in a home that they believed to be haunted. That seance produced a story that came out of the Ouija board that channeled a 19-yearold child who drowned on the lake within the 1860’s with his dad, making an attempt to rescue individuals on a boat that was in hassle in a storm. They have been fishermen. They lived on the sting of Lake Erie. And once we requested issues like, ‘What kind of fish did you fish?’


“Nicely there are not any lake trout around Lake Erie anymore, however the local historical society stated within the late 1800’s there have been. So there was some historic corroboration and stuff that got here out of that. It was a very fascinating evening. Couldn’t debunk it. Had some historical accuracy to it. And I reported that story on the radio.

“I had also interviewed and studied people who had gotten very serious into paranormal research,” Mike continued, “So I had gone in there [Amityville] with an open mind, considering,

‘Okay, I know this terrain, I’ve studied exorcisms and ghosts and find out about placing salt within the corners of the rooms, all that sort of stuff,’ and I went in there considering, ‘Nicely perhaps there is something happening.’”

poolIt was dark by the point Mike arrived on the Amityville home — around 6pm on that chilly March night. A person answered the door holding a candelabra. Behind him the interior of the home was pitch black. The man defined that they have been retaining the lights and electrical gear off in order to not disturb the vibrations.

Mike appeared to be the primary to arrive. Handing over the candelabra, the person steered that Mike take a look around the home as he waited there, by the door, for the others.

“I took the candelabra and started walking up the stairs, thinking this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever been involved in. Here I am, walking up the stairs of this haunted house with this candelabra in my hand. It’s all dark. What the hell is going on here? I got to tell you, the anxiety that I felt walking in the house, going up the stairs with the candlesticks and being in this haunted house with the lights off, 30 seconds in — it’s unsettling. Suddenly it’s the haunted house at Disneyland.”

Appearing because the information reporter for a rock ‘n’ roll radio station, Mike typically integrated a number of music into his stories. “The music that popped into my head as I used to be going up the stairs was ‘The End’ by the Doorways, which Jim Morrison sings, ‘The killer awoke before daybreak, he visited his mother’s room, he visited his father’s room.’ This was operating via my head as I walked round the home, poking into doorways and home windows, simply wanting around on the numerous rooms.

“It was creepy in a way you realize that, I guess, Lutz bought the house fully-furnished, and so a lot of that furniture and whatever appliances, and that goofy lion statue and all of that must have been the DeFeo’s stuff. And so to realize that the house was pretty much intact, and that the Lutz family hadn’t lived there all that long. It was almost an unspoiled crime scene, but it had been cleaned up — new mattresses brought in. I’ve been in other crime scene homes where there was some physical evidence that mass murders had gone down — stained ballroom floors, that kind of thing — but no traces of any of it [here].”

As the house began to fill-up with other reporters, investigators and psychics, the lights have been shortly turned again on. “As we were walking around the house, people were talking about cold spots, hot spots — I didn’t see it. It’s an old house, it was March, it was cold.”

One other matter of dialogue was the DeFeo murders, which had occurred in that house simply over a yr in the past. “The story that was going around that night was that [Ronnie DeFeo] had laced the family meal with barbiturates,” Mike remembered, not then conscious of the coroner’s report which said that no traces of any medicine have been discovered in the victims’ our bodies.

Lutz Kitchen“I actually tried to get into the spirit of the moment and the vibe, however the place simply appeared so rattling unusual. Every thing was just so odd. Simply didn’t kick up something in any way. The place was haunted by its interior decorator. The moose head, that lion statue — I might never get a repair on what kind of character had driven what was happening in that house. Who would stick that moose head up — the place is that coming from? Was that Lutz? Was that the DeFeos? And that was the unsettling thing about it. You go into anyone’s house and you will get a way of their logic — what sort of individuals they’re. You couldn’t in that home, because there was simply a lot whacko junk all over. Disorganized.

“I mean structurally and architecturally, its a nice house. The staircase is actually grand, and once you walk in the front door and see that in front of you, and these rooms — the dining room coming off one aspect, the living room coming off the other — its a really nice place. The Sunroom is caught off to the aspect. It was built with the most effective of intentions — really junked up by the point we obtained there. … The oddball furnishings and the things simply sort of stuck around. The entire thing appeared like it was furnished by the Salvation Army.

“And sure, a family with kids, things are going to get sloppy; but there was really no overriding sense of personality about the family who lived there. Why would there be all this weird furniture, brik-a-brak all over the place? It didn’t make sense. If they were just going to walk out with the clothes on their backs one day on the advice of the Roman Catholic Church, then maybe they were just scattered to begin with.”

With that time in mind, Mike carried out what he refers to as the ‘Toothbrush Test.’ “That is, if individuals are going to go away, they usually’re going away for the night time, or they’re going away on a trip, they’re going to take their toothbrushes with them. So I checked all the drugs cupboards in all the loos, and the toothbrushes and toothpastes have been all there. That they had, certainly, just walked out of the house.

“And in fact they had asked would we please empty the food out of the kitchen refrigerator, because there was lettuce and tomatoes and veggies and stuff in there that would spoil — and so at the request of the Lutz family we emptied out the perishables from the refrigerator.”

dawnsroomAmong the many numerous observers and psychic investigators current that night time have been demonologists Ed & Lorraine Warren and native TV newsanchor Marvin Scott and his crew, who have been there with cub reporter Laura DiDio, filming a report for the Channel 5 information. “Marvin performed it low-key. He and his cameraman and sound man, all of them just shot what was occurring, stayed out of it, didn’t attempt to sully the surroundings by asking questions or being an annoying presence within the story.

“Everyone walked around the house, exploring. I remember the camera guy setting up, doing the infrared photography. There was some guy who identified himself as a paranormal researcher affiliated with Duke  University. [He and his friend] kept very quiet and to themselves,” Mike defined, probably referring to Jerry Solfvin and George Kekoris from the Psychical Research Basis.

The primary event for the night was the seance. “I keep in mind once we sat down on the eating room desk for the seance, and holding arms, and these individuals would sway forwards and backwards and begin moaning and carrying-on — and doing this type of free-association stuff, where one among them started saying, ‘Oh, I feel the presence, it’s an amorphous demon, it’s purple, it has no shape.’ This was also once they started claiming that they have been choosing up vibrations from the Indian burial floor and stuff. That was the primary I had heard of that. They usually also claimed that they have been choosing up vibrations from someone who had dedicated suicide in the home earlier.

“In the midst of all of this, instantly there’s a knock on the door. BANG-BANG-BANG! And naturally everybody shot up. All of us jumped up from the dining room desk and ran to the entrance door. Cameras have been rolling, and nonetheless cameras have been there. We flung the door open, and…

We flung the door open, and it’s this 16-year-old child in a tuxedo with a corsage field in his hand on the lookout for his dance date. He got here to the flawed house. And abruptly he’s standing there, and right here’s around 15 of those absolute lunatics and a TV digital camera targeted on him, considering ‘What the hell?’”

The misplaced prom date who disrupted the seance was quickly on his means, however he was not the one distraction that night time. “A little bit later there was some tapping on one of the windows in the dining room. And these were two boys — little kids who lived next door whose parents have had it with the notoriety that this place was getting now — and they were shouting, ‘Hey Ronnie, you wanna come out and play ‘ghost’?‘”

The seance continued. “You already know, it was arduous to take it critically, sitting around that desk, all of those psychics joining palms and swaying and moaning and carrying on. It was far too ‘comic book’. I anticipated to listen to knockings and trumpets blowing and all of that stuff from the 1920’s occurring yet again. They have been merely simply giddy, goofy, over the top wailers and moaners who just dredged up all of these fictional tales of demise in the home. Indian burials, suicides within the house, this purple and black demonic pressure that was an incarnate drive — they claimed that it was simply this ball of unfavorable power that they might visualize as simply pulsing — the beating heart of the home. Of course, nothing that you would put your finger on.

Amityville seance“And how they got there,” Mike continued, referring to the varied psychics, “I never did figure that out — nor the relationship between DeFeo’s attorney and these psychics … or whether Marvin Scott had brought them in, or who. That was one part of the picture I still don’t know about.”

I asked Mike for his impressions of the others who have been there that night time. “From what I can keep in mind of [the Warrens], they appeared like showbiz psychics — that what they have been really all about was a nightclub act. Having dealt years earlier, like I stated, with people who have been critical about paranormal analysis — and that was the whole lot from individuals who have been making an attempt to locate ghosts, people who have been doing exorcisms, people who might clear houses of unfavorable spirits, individuals who have been making an attempt to resuscitate historic Egyptian magic rituals, yogas, Buddhists who have been trying to determine reincarnated llamas in youngsters who have been being born, that entire thing — I’ve labored that world, however I had by no means really come throughout anybody as ‘showbiz goofy’ because the Warrens. They struck me as not being psychic researchers, but more of a nightclub act.

“The cameraguy who had the apoplectic attack — I think it was just the net effect of the ‘show business’ — the kind of cheap theatrics that these psychics were pulling off. He became short of breath, and that could have been anything from having gone up and down the stairs to simply the anxiety of what the psychics were kicking up. Whether it was brought on by that, or whether he simply had a cardio condition that acted up, I don’t know. But he was winded. He did sit down. Of course the psychics leveraged that into all kinds of paranormal theories. But it could have been the moment, it could have been physiological, it could have been an arterial condition in his aorta. [But it] did, indeed, happen.”

Hearing confirmation of that incident involving the cameraman, I next requested Mike about another oft-mentioned occurring from that night time — the taking of the infamous “ghostie boy” photograph.

“Yeah, I saw the photo. But there was no evidence that evening of anything that would have suggested that something like that would materialize. There was nothing the least bit spooky. Once you got familiar with the house — once you had been in it for 5 or 6 hours — the net effect was that it became far less scary the more you learned about it. Rooms full of flies? Never. Never.”

“No curses following you over the next few days,” I asked in jest.

MICHAEL LINDER: No, nothing. Nothing.

QUESTION: One of the claims made by the Warrens was that Alex Tanous, one of the other psychic investigators there that night time, supposedly levitated 2 ft above the ground as he arrived at the front door. And I’m guessing by your laughter that you simply didn’t hear something about that, right?


QUESTION: Okay. Simply had to ask.

I requested Mike that query because, in response to George Lutz, the Warrens claimed to have a tape recording of Alex Tanous recalling this very incident. I’ve by no means heard the tape, myself, (and I don’t know if George is simply taking the Warrens at their word or not) but I might think about that an incident like that certainly would have been talked about that night amongst the gathered investigators. In any case, from what Mike described, the night appeared to be a very casual gathering of people who principally just wandered around the home taking a look at things and chatting with one another concerning the murders and what they knew concerning the haunting. “A psychic sleepover” as some have later described it.

masterbedroom“I remember there were people camping out in sleeping bags and everything. I do remember that. I also remember that I hadn’t planned to stay, but I just figured ‘what the hell,’ you know, ‘this is a good stunt, I’m in for it.’ So I just went up and claimed the master bedroom and crawled in and just kinda laid there and tried to open myself up to it — play back the crime — think of what had just happened with the seance that night and all of these researchers of all of these different stripes, from the really serious Duke team to nightclub psychics.”

Mike describes his night time alone, recording part of his radio report from the main bedroom. “I laid in the bed and recorded on my cassette recorder a monologue about how I remembered growing up in Illinois as a little kid, home alone on a Saturday night watching Shock Theater on TV and being so afraid of being alone — and here I was in a haunted house, and I didn’t feel any kind of threat. The sheets smelled like Tide. It was all just so comforting. The line was ‘Saturday Night at the swinging singles ghost bar, and I’m going to be sleeping alone.‘”

When Mike gave me that “it was all so comforting” line, it triggered recollections of how the Lutzes described themselves as being “charmed” by the home, the place they felt like they never needed to go away. I remembered what George stated about how he’d spend less and less time at the workplace, and the way Kathy normally beloved Christmas buying, however did little or no of it that yr. As an alternative of going out, they might invite buddies over to the house, and regardless of Kathy’s robust want to fix a number of the DeFeo’s furniture, she would skip out of the re-upholstery courses she signed-up for.

kathy-georgeNaturally this all sounds like a traditional newlywed couple having fun with their pretty new dream house, but George stated it went much additional than that. It was virtually as if they have been underneath a spell. In truth, when the haunting turned overt and the household felt threatened, George blames this overriding feeling for causing them to perhaps keep longer than they did. Once they phoned Father Ray the subsequent day, his advice was for them to go away the house and stay at a motel or with a relative until they obtained the state of affairs sorted out. That straightforward concept just wasn’t on George or Kathy’s radar — the realization that they might simply stroll out the door and spend the night time elsewhere.

In fact Mike isn’t saying that he was possessed by the home, and I don’t mean to deduce that he was. Still, I couldn’t assist however make that connection simply then.

“I slept in the master bed that night,” Mike continues. “About half the people — Marvin Scott, the TV crew — all but a few bailed out. I can’t remember exactly how many spent the entire night, but I did. It was just a one-night event from probably 5 or 6 in the evening until 8 or 9 the next morning. I got up, drove back to Manhattan. There were still a couple of people hanging around who had spent the whole night in the house.”

Reportedly, a 2nd seance occurred around 3am in the sewing room. “I have no idea what the other people did all night long. When I got up there were still some bleary-eyed people walking around the house, probing it. I just got in my car and drove back to Manhattan. I had my tape, and I had gotten a good night’s sleep. I had no weird dreams, I had no nightmares, I had no fitful sleep. I got a great night’s sleep.”

Within the Epilogue of The Amityville Horror, Jay Anson writes briefly about this March sixth investigation, noting: “Observer Mike Linder of WNEW-FM stated that he had felt a sudden numbness, a kind of cold sensation.”

“I never said that,” Mike attests. “That was completely fictionalized. Completely made up.”

Mike insisted that he gave the story of the haunting a good shot. “I did not go in there as a skeptic. I went in looking for it. … I had also interviewed and studied people who had gotten very serious into paranormal research, and that was when I was intrigued by these guys who said they were there from Duke — these two guys who said that the carnival circus atmosphere was not conducive to doing any kind of serious research. That was exactly the story.”

In reality, Mike might have faced a much scarier state of affairs in 1990 when, as producer for The Jesse Jackson Show, he met with Saddam Hussein on the eve of the primary Gulf Warfare.

“We had three meetings, truly. I was up in my lodge room on the Al Rasheed. It was about ten o’clock at night time. I acquired a name from the supervisor saying, ‘Mr Linder you have to come down to the lobby.’ I did, and there have been two Iraqi troopers in cammo, each carrying an AK47, they usually spoke no English, in any respect. They flanked me and every of them took me by an arm and walked me outdoors the lodge without saying a word — put me behind a automotive, and we drove off into the Baghdad night time at excessive speeds. That they had blue license plates, and when cops would see this automotive coming they might cease all visitors and wave them by means of intersections.

“We drove around city madly for about 40 minutes; whipped into an underground parking zone of a constructing that turned out to be one in every of Saddam’s palaces — was introduced up in an elevator, via a metallic detector, and there was Saddam and Jesse Jackson and my crew. We had all been rounded up and introduced separately in bizarre routes to the place Saddam was at that exact second.

“I was sporting this type of khaki shirt and pants — type of quasi-military — and Jesse’s sporting a shirt and tie. I have to apologize. We’re in a Louis XIV classical palace room, and everyone’s suited up besides me. Jesse stated, ‘Mr Linder, who I don’t assume knew was going to be here tonight.’ And Saddam walks over and checks out my clothes and feels my shirt. He says, ‘Oh, I like dressing like what Mr Linder, here, does.’ He sort of patted me on the shoulder. Saddam was very good and really cordial to me. That was far weirder [than being in the Amityville house].

“In fact, I’ll tell you the revelation — I haven’t seen this come up. Before we turned in for the night, a bunch of us started digging around in Lutzes’ desk, and looking at papers and files that he had. What we found were…”

“In truth, I’ll inform you the revelation — I haven’t seen this come up. Earlier than we turned in for the night time, a bunch of us started digging around in Lutzes’ desk, and taking a look at papers and information that he had. What we found have been copies of a bunch of letters that he had sent to numerous publishing corporations offering to maneuver out of the home in trade for a ebook deal. He was pitching these things.

lorraine-marvin-to-sewingrm“I consider there have been some two-way correspondence, however the story that I reported was ‘maybe there is a demon here, and maybe this purple, undulating, amorphous blob of evil is cunning enough not to resort to mass murder every time — maybe all it took to corrupt the Lutzes’ souls was a e-book and movie deal in six figures. And the demon is sitting again, waiting for the subsequent family to maneuver in.’ And I closed it off with ‘from the not-so-haunted house in Amityville, Long Island, Michael Linder, WNEW-FM News.’

“And I played that on the radio Monday morning to a huge reaction from the city. It was unbelievable. And in the months that followed every sign in the town that said ‘Amityville’ on it was stolen by souvenir hunters. This town of Amityville was just absolutely flummoxed by this. By the time the movie came out and everything, and the notoriety, you couldn’t have anything that said ‘Amityville’ on it, because souvenir hunters would come and rip the signs out.”

Sadly, Michael’s taped copy of his Amityville Horror report was lost a couple of years back during a flood at his storage facility in his present hometown of Southern California.

“The main thing that was on my tape, and that was in my report, was pretty much the story I’ve been telling you, about the neighbor kids tapping on the window and yelling out to Ronnie; the kid at the door; the actual seance, itself — all of these things were the points that I covered in the story — but especially that thing about digging through the Lutzes’ desk and finding those letters, and that they had been pitching moving out of the house in exchange for a publishing deal before they left the house. They had left that paperwork behind in their desk.”


QUESTION: Can you recall approximately how many guide corporations they have been corresponding with?

MICHAEL LINDER: I feel there have been 2 or three letters like that.

QUESTION: 2 or 3?

MICHAEL LINDER: Yeah, to the most effective of my recollection. But they have been pitching it. Yeah.


This was definitely news to me, and this dramatic hoax proof apparently seems to have escaped the scrutiny of Steve Kaplan, Rick Moran and Ric Osuna as nicely.

“My cynical surmise on all of this — and there’s no means I can prove it — is just that the Lutzes picked up this house with the concept they might flip it round into an intellectual property; and that DiDio came in as sort of a third social gathering who might engineer the parable of the home, construct it up, usher in TV, start this speak about ‘was Ronnie possessed by demonic spirits the night of the murders,’ let’s usher in psychics and see what will get produced. All the whereas giving the Lutzes plausible deniability. Yet the letters in the desk, demonstrating that they have been truly pitching the whole thing, was their undoing. They usually played it as ‘yeah, we went to the church, we tried to figure out what to do, we were so worried by all of this.’

“But I really believe that they were using DiDio as their cat’s paw to hype the house, to build interest in it and to whip up the literary possibilities. Evidently it worked. They got what they wanted.”

Through the course of the interview, I tried to stay as neutral as I might, not eager to influence Mike’s recollections. As we neared the end, nevertheless, I did attempt to run some things by him, because the information of the discovery of letters between the Lutzes and publishing corporations seemed alien and unfamiliar to me, and I used to be interested by his reactions in the direction of the claims made by the Lutzes in later years.


QUESTION: Yeah, I see what you’re saying. There’s some oddness about it, though. I mean for one, how much money did they assume they might make with a e-book a few haunted home? And two, they gave the home back to the bank as an alternative of reselling it, so instantly they’re dropping nevertheless much they misplaced — $60,000 or no matter it was.

I haven’t confirmed this, however they claimed that they stored making funds on the house up until June or July; but once more, that’s simply coming from George, I haven’t been capable of affirm that in any respect. And it simply opens up all these questions — there seems to be questions all over the place you look — on each side. If you consider it as a hoax, you run into questions; and then once you consider it as a true story, you run into questions. It looks like there’s no straightforward answers.

MICHAEL LINDER: Everyone was considering e-book & movie deal on the time. John Parsons, who was then News Director at WNEW, which it was generally known as then, was considering of, and truly urged me to write down a screenplay remedy for it. He was considering “book and movie deal.” Numerous individuals have been considering “book & movie deal” on the time. In New York City the literary prospects of what was happening in that house, especially after what had occurred that night time in March, ’76, you understand, numerous individuals have been connecting these dots and considering when it comes to literary properties at the moment.

QUESTION: And William Weber, too. He was making an attempt to get a e-book deal. I don’t know a few movie deal, however he was making an attempt to get a ebook deal completed, too. Making an attempt to write down his personal e-book. In truth making an attempt to put in writing it in collaboration with Ronnie DeFeo, the place Ronnie would get income from the guide. That was before the Son of Sam regulation and every thing.

MICHAEL LINDER: Yeah, nothing like grisly dying as an ideal revenue middle. I ought to speak. [laughter]

QUESTION: Yeah, then again, you run into questions like “Why would he leave behind those book contracts that you guys found if he was…”

MICHAEL LINDER: Yeah, that was actually sloppiness.

lutzesQUESTION: Yeah. And in addition it looks like somebody would “be in the know.” I imply to get the involvement of the priest, you danger him blowing the whistle if he stated “no” and if they went with another person, then he may blow the whistle and say, “Hey, the Lutzes approached me with the same deal, and I said ‘no’.”

MICHAEL LINDER: You recognize, you guys have dug into that angle more than I did, however my impression moving into that night time was that the priest had merely stated to the Lutzes, “Well, you know, if it bothers you, move.”

QUESTION: Nicely George did say that. Yeah. George stated that’s principally the way it went down. The household was simply in a mind set where that simply didn’t occur to them — and once more they stated that was one thing that they skilled in the house, this bizarre feeling that they by no means needed to depart. It simply didn’t happen to them to — at the least for a night — go get a motel room or something else. And George stated that’s precisely what the priest stated — simply get out of the house…

MICHAEL LINDER: I all the time thought it was extra of an off-the-cuff factor that the priest would say, like, “Okay, if it bothers you, move.” And that becomes “advised to leave on the advice of the Roman Catholic Church.”

QUESTION: Ah, yeah — I see what you’re saying.

MICHAEL LINDER: The shading of it. You’ll be able to take a simple comment of, “You know, if its creeping you out, go somewhere else, you know.” Positive. Widespread sense advice. All of a sudden that turns into like a papal mandate of “Evil! Evil! Beware! Get out!” Nicely I’m unsure it went down that means.

QUESTION: Yeah. I can see your aspect, and to play Devil’s Advocate, there’s additionally the question of how much of that came from the Lutzes and the way a lot of that got here from Jay Anson writing the novel. There are things that Jay Anson put within the ebook that the Lutzes flat-out stated by no means occurred.

MICHAEL LINDER: Oh yeah, he was completely excessive, too — to make it play. That’s the actual phenomenon of the Amityville house, that everybody who went in there merely layered their own fantasies on prime of a grisly homicide — and what you’re left with is a bizzaro wedding ceremony cake of a property that’s simply received so many layers of icing and doo dads stuck on it that it turns into greater than life.

book-coverQUESTION: It takes on a lifetime of its personal. … In 1979, when the film was just about to return out, and the guide was such successful, that’s when Weber sued the Lutzes, saying that they walked away from his e-book deal — and that’s when Weber first began claiming that it was all made up, that he made up the story with the Lutzes, which appears odd as a result of there’s a contradiction — there’s a couple of contradictions there with Weber making it up with them. Then the case was settled out of courtroom. The decide received mad at Weber for being more of a literary agent than a lawyer. In order that they settled out of courtroom. I don’t understand how a lot it was for, however in response to a personal letter that Weber sent to Ronnie DeFeo, he claimed it was a very small amount.

MICHAEL LINDER: Who made probably the most cash out of all this?

QUESTION: I feel the makers of the unique film. Although, you already know, with inflation… No, I feel still the original movie. The original movie made a ton at the box office. You possibly can go to these websites where they regulate the income for inflation, and I feel even adjusted for inflation, the original did better than even this 2005 remake. So the movie studio and Jay Anson, if you wish to be specific. Jay Anson additionally had a reduce of the film. I don’t understand how a lot — I don’t know what type of proportion deal he had, however Jay Anson made a ton of cash off the e-book and the movie.

The Lutzes declare they didn’t make so much. Offhand I overlook exactly how a lot they stated they claimed, nevertheless it was underneath one million — and that was up til the 2000’s — for the deal that they had.

MICHAEL LINDER: Did you ever suss out precisely how vibrant a man you assume George Lutz really was beneath it all?

QUESTION: I met George Lutz over the past yr of his life.

[At this point the tape ends and this portion of the interview is lost as I switched cassettes]

QUESTION: I get an general sense that something did occur. Whether or not stuff was embellished — that’s harder to get a sense of. Nevertheless it really does seem to me that something occurred to frighten them.

And I don’t know. The entire family kinda turned their back on the public in the early 80s — I’m positive as a consequence of being fed up with being in the spotlight and being referred to as liars and issues like that. And then they got here forward again — at the least George did — in 1999 when the Historical past’s Mysteries crew came round and needed to interview him. And from the tales I’ve heard, he was very timid at first after which received more and more into it. Then he started going to varied Amityville web sites and he began answering individuals’s questions, and he began being actually, really open — going around and giving talks about it and things like that. And also you kinda assume, if it was a money-making venture, you marvel, “Well what’s in it for George these days?”

Considered one of the tasks that George needed to do within the 70s was to publish a e-book referred to as The Amityville Horror Picture Ebook, which might have pictures of the home and the investigation you attended. For one purpose or one other that guide didn’t get revealed within the 70s — and during this last decade, when he was open once more to discussing the case, he resurrected the image e-book venture. It was type of a pet challenge for him. He had a few his buddies working on it.

On one occasion, in 2004, I informed him, “George, you guys really got to get crackin’ because if you want to put this picture book out, the thing to do is to take advantage of all this publicity that the remake is creating.” And he kinda shot me down. He stated, “No, that’s not my intent. I’m not doing this for money. Its a labor of love. I want to take my time.”

And I even informed him, “Well, its not even a money thing, but you gotta figure that if you want to get a publisher, the publisher is going to be more interested in doing your book if they think the public is interested.”

So, I don’t know. There’s little things like that…

MICHAEL LINDER: That’s why I feel he might not have been the brightest man on the planet, and why he might have left these letters behind. And I feel chances are you’ll be proper as properly that perhaps they did get scared. I imply, what when you lived in a mass-murder crime scene for a number of months, you realize? What does that basically do to you? When your whole setting is the scene of ugly household demise; youngsters being killed. That’s gotta be unsettling.

Perhaps he realized, “we can’t live here — we’re not going to be able to unload this thing — maybe our way out is to pull off a book and whatever.” You know, if I sound as if although he went in there with the forethought to do it, I’m not so positive — and especially based mostly on what I’m hearing from you now when it comes to how he really didn’t have the sense to sink a new e-book concept with a function film launch, you understand, simply out of selling practicality.


And this is where our interview ended. Nonetheless, something didn’t appear to jibe with this discovery of the letters in George’s desk. How might this putting hoax evidence be missed by Kaplan, Moran and Osuna? Why wasn’t it shown to Marvin Scott and his news crew? How might George carelessly depart digital proof of a hoax behind like that? Who else noticed these letters, and why did no one else seem to blow the whistle (let alone the varied ebook publishers contacted by the Lutzes) And the way might this all remain forgotten for over 30 years?

Then I remembered something that George had once stated in an interview. Because of our current transcription undertaking, I was capable of find the statement George made pretty shortly, which got here from his look on the Lou Gentile Show in 2002: “By the time Ed and Lorraine went into the house on the 2nd time, there was a contract that had been delivered to our house. It had Weber and his partners, Mars and Burton, wanted to do a book deal and a movie deal and use our story as part of that.”

Might this contract have been delivered to the Amityville home as an alternative of Kathy’s mother’s house? Discovered by the Warrens (or others) and left on a table or something? Maybe this could be what Mike noticed — the contract that Weber had written-up?

I sent Mike a replica of that Weber contract, asking if it seemed acquainted and asking a number of different follow-up questions. His response:

“I don’t recall the document you attached, though it’s possible it may have been among the papers. Those we saw were in a file drawer in a desk, I believe on the main floor. Would that be the living room? I have no idea whether Marvin saw them or not, or what time of the night they were discovered. It’s my recollection that the papers we saw were letters rather than contracts, but I’m fuzzy on the point. The others who were looking at them were definitely not the psychics. I remember them as being letters from publishers passing on the Lutz’ offer, not a contract deal. Had I seen the document you attached, I’m pretty sure I would have reported it.”

So there you have got it. Make of it what you’ll. Another Amityville interview so as to add to the pile. With each reply we get relating to the Amityville case, we only seem burdened with more questions in return. Two steps ahead, one step back.

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